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[Hilary]

Whoa ... who has seen these.  I wish I could post the pictures! Any comments, Wilson people?!

[CoolGrrl28]

Can you email the pictures to us? What is the color scheme? Plaid? Does it have a crest? Is it posted on the RCSD web site? Was this even voted on by the parents and students of the school?

If all the city schools move to uniforms, we will be forced to leave this district, taking our high-achieving student with us, so as not to be subjected to this nonsence.

[CSampson]

The parents voted.  I understand they were able to get votes from all parents.  Not sure of the percentages pro / con.  The principal (and staff) selected the uniform.  Not sure if School Base had a say.  I'll find out more on after Wednesday.

Personally I like the idea of uniforms.  Some students are not encouraged by their parents to dress appropriately.  There seem to be some confusion between "I'm going to school" & "I'm going to the club/beach or any where else but school".

Many places of employment have uniforms or strict dress codes.  One point of school is to make young people citizens and teach them how to operate in this world.  Individuality is allowed in this world, but we have to all learn that there is a time and a place for everything.

[CoolGrrl28]

Some students are not encouraged by their parents to dress appropriately.  There seem to be some confusion between "I'm going to school" & "I'm going to the club/beach or any where else but school".

Many places of employment have uniforms or strict dress codes.  One point of school is to make young people citizens and teach them how to operate in this world.  Individuality is allowed in this world, but we have to all learn that there is a time and a place for everything.

You hit the nail on the head when you typed "some" students! So, instead of a knee-jerk reaction and a blanket policy, why aren't those particular students taken aside, and mentored/guided to be the great citizens we know they are to become? It's sad that they aren't getting that care from their homes, but to inflict a uniform policy on those who aren't the problem is too extreme. That's like jailing everyone in the town because one person committed a crime. I am glad to hear that a democratic vote was taken by those directly affected, but I am absolutely amazed that every single household participated! I think that is a major miracle, as we have quite a hard time getting parental response/attendance at our school, even for something small like a coffee time meeting with the principal. Also, it is true that some businesses have uniforms or strict dress codes, but as an adult, you have the choice whether or not to work at that establishment, or to support that business with your hard-earned dollars. These are public schools, and as such, our children should not be treated any differently than any other public school child in our county. There IS a time and place for everything. This might influence people to think that this is the time to leave this place.

[watdi33]

Thanks for your comments Coolgrrrl28. You are right on point.

[CSampson]

    I thought I'd wait until I had the official numbers from the vote on  the uniforms at Wilson to respond:
72/72 9th grade parents voted: 49  said yes
248/304 10th grade parents voted: 171 said yes
211/273  11th grade parents voted: 147 said yes.
 The following people counted  the vote: Ms. Crawford n(ASAR), Mr. Moellering
(RTA), Ms. Barnes  (BENTA), Mr. Williams (RAPP), Mr. Bowans (Parent)
 The following is  the staff (yes/total) vote:
ASAR 6/7
RTA 78/91
BENTA 36/37
RAP  10/13
So uniform policies, as well as other rules in our society  come up to address problems.  I'd compare the uniform policy more to the  laws now about texting and driving.  When the 5 young people a few  years ago from Fairport were killed, it became the topic and now it is  illegal (and also to talk) while driving.  This law, as well as others, I  don't personally break, however it costs me money in the long run, but  perhaps it makes society better as a whole.    [font=&quot]This uniform policy is being  hotly debated on the Wilson Yahoo group.  I didn't go to the PTSA  meeting last night, so not so sure if it was discussed.

I've  pretty much checked out of the "parent process" at Wilson due to the  fact that very few parents participate in the process (i.e. PTSA which is held in the evenings, SBPT in the afternoons, or those occasional breakfast with the Principal) but scream bloody  murder when decisions are made they don't like.  Parliamentary rules  would have the debate start before the vote.  Once the vote is carried,  debate on the subject is mute...

Sorry to be so harsh, but that is really how I feel...[/font]

[CoolGrrl28]

    I thought I'd wait until I had the official numbers from the vote on  the uniforms at Wilson to respond:
72/72 9th grade parents voted: 49  said yes
248/304 10th grade parents voted: 171 said yes
211/273  11th grade parents voted: 147 said yes.
 The following people counted  the vote: Ms. Crawford n(ASAR), Mr. Moellering
(RTA), Ms. Barnes  (BENTA), Mr. Williams (RAPP), Mr. Bowans (Parent)
 The following is  the staff (yes/total) vote:
ASAR 6/7
RTA 78/91
BENTA 36/37
RAP  10/13
     [font=&quot]

Parliamentary rules  would have the debate start before the vote.  Once the vote is carried,  debate on the subject is mute...

Sorry to be so harsh, but that is really how I feel... [/font]

I haven't interpreted your comments as harsh, as they are your honest opinions, so own them. I also appreciate you posting the voting results.

I hope that all the incoming students had this information before they selected this school, otherwise, they should be able to make a new high school choice.

Also, I hope that the 282 (out of the total 649) other families (who did not vote "yes") will not be forced to stay at Wilson, if this is an issue for them. Will they be able to attend a different school? On the flip side, could students/families who want to have uniforms be able to transfer into Wilson?

A large majority of the teachers voted for uniforms. Will they be wearing uniforms as well? This would be a wonderful way to let the students see first-hand what upstanding citzens do to be a part of the system. The teachers won't have any problems adhearing to those same standards, as uniforms make our society better for all.

I still wish those who need guidance would get it. Clothes DON'T make the person.

[CoolGrrl28]

One thought/question: Has a school ever had a uniform that was simply - all black? It is very easy to match tops and bottoms, when they are all the same color. Black is slimming, classy, and hides stains pretty well. Just wondered if this had been tried.

[Mrs.Schenk]

I like the black on black concept!  Our school is still deciding what our uniform will look like.  Some want dark tops (to hide stains better) with khaki bottoms.  Others want light colored tops with dark bottoms (to hid the stains better).  Dark on dark seems a great compromise!

Our administrator did survey the staff about staff uniforms as well.  I was surprised that several of my colleagues wanted to make that shift.  He is encouraging us to participate in the dress code.  He feels like it would set an example for the students that we are ALL a team, and we are ALL working together.

So far, I've had 3 very enthusiastic parents.  They wished we'd started when their children were in kindergarten.  (they're now entering 2nd) One parent made  a great point... As soon as she knows the colors, she's putting them on lay away for the summer, and this way, she doesn't have to wait to see what styles will be "in" come September, and her son will have the new clothes for school she might not otherwise be able to afford at one time.  I thought that was a really insightful response from this mom!

[Hilary]

Maybe it is just me, but I tend to buy my kids' clothes for next year the previous year, when they go on sale. So by now I would have most of what I would need for next year.  So I would not be happy if my school were still deciding what the uniform would look like.

(As far as the dark/light debate goes, our school is giving a choice of navy or khaki bottoms, and navy, light blue or white polos. So that covers all the options.)

I understand that Wilson parents voted for uniforms. But I was a little shocked to see the actual uniforms, and I wonder if parents knew what they were voting for!  As far as having a choice goes - yes and no - I only have one neighborhood school, there is only one IB program in the city.  It's not a huge deal, but it's not as simple as "if you don't like uniforms go somewhere else" ... unless you mean the suburbs.

[CoolGrrl28]

Maybe it is just me, but I tend to buy my kids' clothes for next year the previous year, when they go on sale. So by now I would have most of what I would need for next year.  So I would not be happy if my school were still deciding what the uniform would look like.

(As far as the dark/light debate goes, our school is giving a choice of navy or khaki bottoms, and navy, light blue or white polos. So that covers all the options.)

I understand that Wilson parents voted for uniforms. But I was a little shocked to see the actual uniforms, and I wonder if parents knew what they were voting for!  As far as having a choice goes - yes and no - I only have one neighborhood school, there is only one IB program in the city.  It's not a huge deal, but it's not as simple as "if you don't like uniforms go somewhere else" ... unless you mean the suburbs.

I agree... I shop ahead of season, or from the previous seasons when they (the clothes we want) are on the clearance racks!

Hilary, the email you sent of the photo of the uniforms didn't come through, but I'll look up the Wilson Yahoo group, and see if any pictures are there. They must be hideous, as you have mentioned them often! 

And about the "choice"... that's one of my peeves. It seems that those with perhaps the fewest options are being forced into this uniform policy. True, some folks want it, and that is all well and good for them. I just think that the RCSD should make non-uniform schools that have IB and other special programs as well, so that moving - let alone, moving to the suburbs, is NOT the only other choice.

I like my home, and I like the cultural diversity of the city. I shouldn't have to move, or pay out-of-district tuition/fees to have my child attend a public school that does not impose a uniform policy. I am lucky to even feel that I have the choice to move. Not everyone has that choice available to them.

[Elizabeth]

The uniform is huge right now at Wilson...but like someone stated earlier it's pointless to debate things that have been decided. I've been in this district for too long and sadly I stronly believe that the "uniform" at Wilson was decided well before parents voted....that was just a formality.

Parents actually called other parents to get their vote YES or NO and when they received a NO  they "talked to them so they could understand why uniforms were a good idea" and convinced would parents to change their minds. That's not how things should be done- but it was in this case.
My only question is: will such efforts be made to involve families in more area's at Wilson?

Wilson is a great school in many many area's...Parent involvement struggles in this school not unlike most schools in our district. I'm not convinced that it is because families don't care or don't want to be involved...I lean toward the environment of most buildings don't see parents as partners but obstacles.

I've checked out of most parent involvement things at Wilson also....it's sad but true. 

One more point...I too shop out of season, Goodwill or Plato's Closet just to get the best deals. This uniform (not unlike other city schools) run's about $25 per shirt/vest. I have never ever spent $25 on ONE shirt for school. especially a white one. The quality isn't great but to her credit the Principal is trying to take care of the quality of the clothing. AND- I believe the vendor is located in the City of Rochester...which I love that fact that we are supporting a city buisness.

[CoolGrrl28]

Wow. I thank you for letting us know about the voting "discrepancies" regarding the uniforms. Just a formality... ugh. I don't speak for anyone else, but doesn't it seem strange to make arrangements with one local business to be the only supplier of a particular uniform? (Yes, this happens at some local parochial schools, but we are a public school, and should not be supporting a monopoly.) I wish we could "follow the money" on this, to see if there is some sort of kick-back to the school (or other RCSD employee), or if some nepotism is going on here. If the uniform was a simple "navy, khaki, light blue, white" like at Hilary's school, people could shop where they wanted, looking for the best deal/sale. I also would not spend $25 for a child's plain white shirt, especially of low quality. And, I think that debate is a valued part of our society, as it can help us all see different sides of an issue, hardly pointless. Plus, as I'm not currently a Wilson parent, I did not get any of this info until it was posted on this forum, so I missed out on the debate portion of this issue. If someone could post the link to the Wilson yahoo group, I'd appreciate it. I'd like to see what the actual parents have said about this, as they are directly affected. I also think that as this is OUR public school district, we can make changes at any time to any policy that is not working well. I am very passionate about this uniform issue, as I feel if left unchecked, it could lead to a "... and then they came for me" situation.

[CoolGrrl28]

Elizabeth, thank you for allowing me to join the Wilson yahoo group. I was able to learn that the uniforms *are* able to be purchased at a retailer of choice, but that a patch was needed to be purchased, and added onto the top (shirt/vest/cardigan) at the cost of $3 per each.

Was there a reason a sewable patch was picked to be utilized, instead of a button/pin/lanyard type of item, which only one would need to be purchased, and could easily be used on any item?

Someone mentioned on that yahoo site that as a city resident, our children have many choices of high schools, i.e. charter, private, all of the city high schools, as well as the urban-suburban program. I don't believe that the urban-suburban program is for any city child, as they must be a recognized "minority" to participate. (This seems wrong to me, but that is for a separate discussion!)

The person also said that tuition assistance was available for those in need of it, to attend private schools. I have looked into many in our area, and it seems that there is some assistance, but it is not a "free ride", and the balance might still make private school out-of-reach for many, including me!

Also, if I gathered this correctly, not as much discussion about these uniforms happened *before* the vote, and that was why so many people were now so upset about this issue.

I know I would be beside myself if the only school that my child could attend to be a part of the prestigious IB program suddenly cared more about what pieces of cloth she was wearing, instead of the quality of her education. What is a uniform really teaching kids - Yes, judge people on their looks, not on the content of their character? Clothes are what matters, not what's in your mind, and your individual personality? I think Mr. Madoff was a very well-dressed man, and a criminal.

[CSampson]

Also, if I gathered this correctly, not as much discussion about  these uniforms happened *before* the vote, and that was why so many  people were now so upset about this issue.

Unfortunately, not many parents participate in the "forums" where this was discussed (i.e. PTSA & SBPT).  There are a variety of  reasons butthe results are the same.  I also am guilty of not participating in these meetings.  I was very active in my daughter's 7th-8th grade years, not so much in 9th and not at all in 10th.  However, I do talk to the Principal and Home School Assistant (teachers too) and get information from them on what is going on.  The meetings get more painful as time goes on.

I would say that the recent conversations regarding uniforms seem to skew the totality of topics that are being discussed at the school.  Whether all people like the solution, the uniforms were instituted to address some of the problems in the school.  Will it make Wilson turn around in the areas where it needs to?  Probably not without other things in place.

In my humble opinion, what needs to happen is: consistency in enforcing all rules on the books (not just dress code), cleaning house of some of the apathetic staff, having some stability in leadership (there have been 4 principals in 5 years & just when you think the configuration is all set, it gets reconfigured again), raise the level of instruction to bring all students up to their potential (i.e. more rigor).  I don't know how we as adults expect the students to learn, much less graduate on time.

Cheryl