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[Hilary]

There is a very interesting op-ed by Albert Simone in the D&C critical of tenure for principals (in particular) and also for teachers.  The piece on line is much longer than the piece in the paper. The piece in the paper ends:

"I do not believe that the education students can and deserve can be achieved with unionized/tenured principals and the current structure for evaluating tenured teachers. I do not believe that the school board can bring about the necessary changes.I believe that mayoral control, replacing the current board, can bring about these changes."

So here's my question:

say you agree with everything Simone says -- principals shouldn't be tenured, teachers should have a different evaluation process.  How is mayoral control going to make that happen? Is the RTA right, and Duffy is going to scrap existing contracts? Does he have that power?  What happened in NYC, does anyone know? Mayor Johnson said one of the reasons he didn't support mayoral control was that you couldn't do that kind of thing in New York state.

Link to expanded piece: http://www.democratandchronicle.com/article/20100307/OPINION02/3050349/1008/opinion/Rochester-school-district-s-tenure-system-needs-to-change

It's too long to reprint here -- but I really recommend you go read it.  My sense is that this is the crux of the mayoral control argument -- that Duffy will be able to, if not bust the unions, then be much tougher with them. To which my honest question is, does he have a track record of that? Has he cracked down on any other union during his tenure?

[Mrs.Schenk]

Don't have answers to all of the questions, only what I've been told by my RTA rep, who learned of this information at a rep assembly meeting last month.  (maybe January)...

If Duffy takes control, we CAN loose our contracts... because they are board authorized documents.  Since the board will no longer exist, it makes any documents they've approved null and void, like our contracts.

WILL he totally scrap the contracts?  WHO KNOWS!?  He has not approached our union (as far as we know) to come to some agreements, and hasn't shared his plans at all for how he will manage us (his future employees). 

I believe in NYC, the mayor approached the union before the take-over, and presented some things he's like to modify, improve, change, etc... SO, going into the take over, the teachers knew where they stood.  They knew they were not loosing a contract. They knew that their class sizes would remain the same.   They knew that their working ours would remain the same.  They knew that they would have their duty free lunch, and 30 minute planning period.  They knew that if they were assaulted by a student there would be protections for them in their contract.  etc.. etc..  So, when the mayor took control in NYC, the teachers were a little more supportive, as they had full knowledge of where they stood.  That mayor actually communicated with the community about his plans, and ideas for the future.

[amstetzenmeyer]

wow..mrs.schenk..youre reaction seems to be very self serving, as if mayoral control should be decided on your contract and benefits and your workload instead of what might benefit the student body. or am i led to believe that your compensation and or contract directly affects your teaching ability? we are fortunate enough to have a great teacher for our daughter,but if i was led to believe that her compensation was her only worry,  then  we would have to be forced to look elsewhere for educational opportunities. by the way i would like to believe  that instead of posting defenseless  gripes about their contracts  that teachers of failing students would be finding more constructive things to do than compain on a "PARENTS" forum about their contract worries.  you do not represent your colleagues well here,  i hope

[Eileen]

Teachers are highly educated professionals with Masters degrees and should not be represented by unions.   Teachers should be able to rely on their talents and credentials and be rated and paid accordingly, as is done in most professions in the private sector.  Tenure after 3 years?  Ridiculous!  Teachers who are willing to work with difficult student populations should be paid more, as should teachers who are really good at what they do.  Everyone knows who the good teachers are, so let's reward them.  I'm for anything that will help us get better teachers in front of ALL our kids.  The School Board hasn't been able to get us there, so let Mayor Duffy try.

[Hilary]

amstetzenmeyer,

I don't think Mrs. Schenk's post was a gripe; she was responding to specific questions I asked. I think it is reasonable for teachers to be concerned about what will happen to their contracts; nowhere did I see her suggesting that contract and benefits should be the only factors in deciding mayoral control.  I think it would be very helpful if the mayor communicated with the teachers and the community about his plans; I can only hope that he plans to do so eventually.

I appreciate hearing the views of teachers on this forum, and I appreciate the diversity of opinions here.  I hope that we can find a way to disagree with each other without resorting to personal attacks or assumptions.

Hilary

[Anna]

I think EVERYONE is frustrated about a lack of information coming out of the mayor's office at the moment: parents don't know what mayoral control is going to mean for their children, teachers don't know how it's going to affect them either. I wouldn't be surprised if the mayor is really frustrated with the delay in Albany as well. It seems as if he's unwilling to go before the public with the detailed plans we're all waiting for until he knows exactly what the legislation in Albany is going to say. Although that makes sense to me, the longer he leaves it until he says anything beyond bland generalisations, the more worried/nervous we're all going to get and it's easy in that situation to look at worst possible case scenarios, which makes us even more worried.

PS-- I'm happy to have teachers' opinions on the board -- I've learnt a lot from them. 

[amstetzenmeyer]

hillary,

           i do not feel  that it is resonable for the teachers to be worried about their contracts only when they are threatened.  that is the cornerstone of my arguement. the only other time time we hear teachers gripe about their contracts is when accountability comes to an issue. tenure is a joke...keeping underperforming teachers for the sake of having teachers is a joke.  i have a masters in linguistics and  a minor in education..however i thought that "professional" teachers would be better qualified to teach my daughter, but yes  however much you disagree,  find one sentence in mrs. schenks post  that shows her interest in the students!  i have been clamoring all along that the teachers objections to mayoral control are fully selve serving..not in the best interest of the students..yet all we get from the teachers is  what are we getting in return. qoute from dr. simone    "I do not believe that the education students can and deserve can be achieved with unionized/tenured principals and the current structure for evaluating tenured teachers.quote from a I do not believe that the school board can bring about the necessary changes.I believe that mayoral control, replacing the current board, can bring about these changes."
when is it that the teachers or the board can come up with a valid arguement other than how will it affect us???

[Hilary]

I think if you read Mrs. Schenk's other posts on this board you will get a sense of her deep concern for students.

Again, I think you can make ALL of the points you are making without making it about individual posters, and I would ask that you do that.

[Mrs.Schenk]

Thanks for the support.  Yes, I was strictly answering Hillary's questions about Mayoral control and the contract.  And actually, the points that I mentioned DO have an impact on the children in my class....

class size:  Our contract currently limits my first grade class to 22 students.  While this is still a large number, it sure beats 29, which, if we don't have that guarantee, YOUR CHILDREN could be in a class with that many children.  It is not unreasonable, either.  When I started teaching, the first class I subbed in (which I also did my student teaching in) had 29 second graders, and that was only 11 years ago!  As a parent, no way, no how, would I want my child in a class with more than 25 students.  (as a side bar, I currently have 25 students in my first grade class... 3 more than the "contractual limit" because it was in the best interest of three particular students to "move in" with my class... all teachers, principals, and parents agreed this would be the best move educationally for these children, and they've been a delightful addition)

Duty free lunch:  as it stands, I currently end up with about 20 minutes to eat, and prepare myself for the afternoon session with my children.  Without the duty free lunch, I would not have those few precious moments to gather my thoughts, regroup, eat a few mouth fulls of salad and rejuvinate for the next 3 hours.  The same goes for my planning period... those 25 minutes to make copies, fill out endless paperwork, prepare for the next lesson, and touch base with countless team members goes all too fast.  This DOES effect the children of my class.  For me to my prepared, peppy, upbeat self for them, I need to be able to have a few reality checks throughout the day... I would not want my child in a class with a burnt out, frustrated, and stressed out teacher!

About being assaulted by a kindergarten student:  I'm not sure how to respond to this being a self serving point.  As a professional adult, under no circumstances is it OK for a 5 year old to throw a chair at me, bite me, punch me in the stomach, stamp on my foot, or swing their book bag at me while calling me quite vulgar names.  While I have welcomed these children back to our room with open arms, understanding they are trying to say something MAJOR to me with their actions... all of these things have happened to me.  It is a reality that is happening in our classrooms.  I do like knowing that there is a process to provide assistance to the teacher and student in these situations.  I would not want my child in a classroom where the teacher was not protected when he/she was assaulted.  Sounds like a classroom where the kids would have the potential to be running wild!

Lastly, any job that any of us work at, we have certain expectations from our boss.  We like to know where we stand.  We like to know what hours we will be expected to work.  We like to know that this a "team" operation, especially THIS JOB! etc.. etc.. Without a team, without leadership, without respect for each other, we'll go nowhere! 

Amstetzenmeyer, I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I'm not a caring teacher.  Hillary made a great point to read some of my former posts, I was simply responding to her question, based on what I have been told by my union rep.  I am so blessed to be in a career that I've been called to, that I have the privilege to work the inspiring families and the beautiful children they are creating.  I agree there is much work to be done, and I choose to start that work with me.  I accept nothing less than success from my students, whatever it takes!